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Accessibility and Identity! Two small words for such big and far-reaching impacts; what do you think of when you hear it?

Hello again everyone!

 

I am Jolene MacDonald from Accessibrand, and I’d like to welcome you to the 5th and the last episode of our second season and the 10th episode overall of our podcast “Why Access Matters”.

 

Since our inaugural episode in June of 2022, “Why Access Matters,” proudly and happily brings you thoughts and talks about accessibility every last Friday of each month, and we invite you to listen to our first season if you haven’t already, available on various platforms. All of our episodes to date are independent and don’t require prior listening, but the more you hear from our guests, the better you can learn and grow alongside us as our many wonderful guests talk to us about the all-important concept of accessibility!

 

Now that you’ve thought about what accessibility means to you, let us also ask: what does the intersectionality of accessibility, diversity inclusion and belonging to a minority group mean to you? Do you think accessibility has any link or connection to these other concepts?

To better understand how important it is to break down barriers and address societal openness to inclusion, I talked to Alison Tedford Seaweed.

Alison is an Indigenous Relations consultant based in Abbotsford, BC. She specializes in storytelling, speaking, staff training and strategy. Alison has more than a decade of experience in the government sector, where she worked on culturally sensitive data storytelling, policy analysis, and program development. She has years of private sector experience in impact storytelling, Indigenous relations, communications consultation and staff training.

In this conversation, she shared her valuable thoughts and experiences regarding her commitment to working alongside Indigenous communities, people, and cultures to create transformative change and its intersectionality with her lived experience as an entrepreneur with disability.

 

[Beginning of the interview]

 

Jolene MacDonald

Thank you, Alison, for joining us for our podcast. I'd love to start out by asking you to introduce yourself please.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Thanks so much for having me, Jolene. I'm Alison Tedford Seaweed. I am a Nakwaxdaʼxw woman living on the traditional territories of the Matheqwí and Semá:th First Nations people, in what's known as Abbotsford BC. And I'm really excited to be joining you today.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Thank you. I was- know we were having this little quick conversation before we started recording but we met through someone through business related, you know, social media, because we both have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. I think you also have hypermobile type, or do you have a different type? I don’t remember.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I believe it is the hypermobile type, but I'm doing some genetic testing to confirm.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, I don't know if I'll ever get to that part. But I did do the blood work at one point and they ruled it out. But I guess hypermobile has a gene marker now. So it's after the fact of my diagnosis. So, I'm hoping that comes to light. So I'm glad we could have met. And we're both in the marketing space. So, I'm so excited to have you here today on our podcast. And we'll just jump into the next question if that's okay with you. Awesome. So, in your file online, you have highlighted how you have brought your experiences as an indigenous person working towards reconciliation, to many roles. And in particular, your expertise in the public relations domain of storytelling, speaking strategy and staff training. These experiences we felt ultimately led to your fabulous book called Chronic Profit: Building your Small Business While Managing Persistent Pain. How do you feel about all of this? Any thoughts?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Oh, it's just been a really wonderful opportunity to be able to share some experiences with other people who might be either wondering about if their chronic health challenges might preclude them from starting a business. Or if they have a business and they're, you know, newly identifying that they have some areas where they need to accommodate themselves in their existing business, having all other perspectives, I think can be helpful. And when you're trying to brainstorm how to make things work.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, it certainly is a challenge, knowing that you and I have things in common. Having a chronic illness and, you know, running a business, I felt at my point, I needed to be self-employed still because of having chronic illness. And maybe you feel the same because typical employers really don't know how to accommodate it. And often we're invisible. We don't always show our pain and other issues. So I'm really grateful that you've come out with this book.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Thank you so much. It was really awesome, because I got to integrate a lot of perspectives, not just my experiences, but also other people who have chronic health challenges or service providers who have supported people with chronic health challenges. So that was definitely great to see that it wasn't just my ideas around things. Lots of people came to the table.

 

Jolene MacDonald

That's amazing. And you have other books I believe you're working on or have done.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I- after chronic profit, I released a book called Stay Woke, not Broke. It's about inclusion in business, more generally. And just last week, I released the Canadian Business Owners Guide to Reconciliation. And separately, I co-wrote a textbook with a nonprofit partner called Create to Learn.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Oh, that's amazing. Congratulations!

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Thank you. It was- it's been busy. I had no books before 2020. And now I have a number of them.

 

Jolene MacDonald

That's fantastic, that’s so great! I'm glad you could tell us more about it. I'm sure that we'll be linking on our web page in your podcast. So, we'll make sure that for- to have people look out for the links on how to purchase those books. So going into our next question. We'd like to ask, why do you think accessibility is essential for our society and not just for people with disabilities?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

It's not just- it's like, it's not doing disabled people a favor or persons with disability depending on how people prefer to identify. But really, it provides you know, business owners and organizations the opportunity to learn from different perspectives. You know, for people who are used to having to innovate on a daily basis and be flexible with you know, fluctuating challenges and variables and, you know, that brings, you know, a level of problem solving, and also just a different life experience to be able to

connect with clients and customers who have similar challenges or even to just be able to see the services through a different lens.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, definitely I know, we often talk in our podcasts and even when we're advocating is people don't realize a lot of things that were created for accessibility, or persons with disabilities are things that we use every day. So we like to often put that out that it's not really just for people with disabilities, and I think the general public that don't have experience, they don't understand that. And there's a lot of examples. I know, with technology in particular that we're using every day, like closed captioning, you know, well over 60%, or I can't remember the exact percentage of people watching videos don't actually use sound. And so it's really beneficial, beneficial for everyone, not just for people who, you know, have disabilities or need the different types of accessible technology.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Absolutely, I think everybody wins when things are more accessible

 

Jolene MacDonald

100% Absolutely. What do you think your message is to people who don't know about accessibility? We find that often people seem to be afraid of it. They're threatened with lawsuit, litigation, things like that. But what's your message to people when you start having that conversation about accessibility with others?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I really try to think about it as, you know, being able to more effectively welcome people and include people and really looking at like, what's possible? And not just like, what do you have to do, but what could you do? You know, the regulatory requirements are important. But, you know, I try to look at ceiling- policy is like, it's a floor, not a ceiling, like, we can do things that are outside of what is absolutely required, and be creative about how we welcome people. And some of the things that we can do don't necessarily have to cost money. And things can be implemented over time, in a progressive way. So taking that same growth mindset that you take to many other areas of your business and applying it to how you approach accessibility is somewhere where you can start this journey of being able to welcome in more people.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, definitely. Is there any type of advice you give people who asked how to start?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I think that it's really good to look at, you know, what are the needs that are not being met? Like who are the people that you see, and who are the people that are not engaging with your business? And what are some of the barriers, and being able to reach out to people and find out, like, do some market research around. How come

they choose solutions that, aren't you? And are there areas that you could make changes that would allow you to invite more people into your business? I mean, if you're finding that you're just not seeing a lot of people with a varied life experience, there might be a reason why your message isn't resonating or getting through and it's good to look at if, if it's important to you finding ways to connect more effectively.

 

Jolene MacDonald

And you're in BC. So your legislation has just changed. I think you guys are at the beginning of where Ontario is at the end of our AODA or Accessibility for Ontarians. With Disabilities Act, is there anything that you've noticed already with the new changes in your legislation in your province?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I was involved with co-facilitating some sessions for proscribed organizations through an organization called Untapped Accessibility. And it was really great. One of the things about the legislation that I appreciate is that they require that accessibility committees include indigenous representation. So, I think that there's going to be a lot of opportunities to look at disability through an intersectional lens and think about how who we are identify- intersects with our healthcare experiences and our experiences accessing services in the world.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, that's great. I'm sure there's lots of new and exciting ventures happening. I've met a few different people. We have a couple of clients out in your province as well. And it's interesting to be able to compare the differences and see the journey. But I also see that people have been looking beyond their province and they are taking cues, even though we may be in a different level of legislation. They're trying to go above and beyond in the people that we have already met. So that makes me happy because I remember when AODA started was a very different conversation with clients and potential clients than it is right now. So that's great to hear.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's lots of opportunities there to have important conversations when people are gathering intentionally to discuss accessibility and to reflect on what could be helpful And, and what kinds of barriers might exist from multiple perspectives

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, definitely, I think. So, going on to sort of our next question referring to what we were just talking about the vitality of accessibility, do you think there can be any special roles for people with the intersectionality of disability, and coming from other marginalized groups to be champions for our society, to make our society more equitable and more accessible?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I think that, you know, when you come from a perspective of somebody with lived experiences, where, you know, maybe the world has not been necessarily set up for you, because of who you are, it definitely brings a different perspective to, you know, to be facing, often multiple barriers, and also having, you know, multiple experiences around different ways to advocate for oneself on a number of bases. So, I think it often brings like a broader range of advocacy experience, and just a different way of, of looking at things because who we are can really impact how we access services in the world, even if we have the same condition. Or support needs; who we are, can really make a difference around how accessible those supports can be. And so there's definitely different perspectives that that we bring to the table.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Do you see anything in particular that can be done or advice that we can give organizations where they can integrate that more, because a lot of the times when you see the mandates, you know, people just say, “Oh, I want someone with a disability,” but then having that, that cross section of the intersectionality, race, gender, background, all of that, is there anything that you would like to see done differently?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I think it's just really important to look at, you know, like, no identity is like a monolith. And really looking at, if you want to be able to reach more people, and you want to effectively engage with more people, then it's good to look at who you have available to consult with and, and the how you integrate perspectives that are from life experiences that are really different from yours. And to see it as an opportunity, and a relationship, and not just to tick the box for legislative compliance. Because, ultimately, you know, having these committees is something that's required, but, you know, the relationships is something that's what supports the sustainability of those initiatives. And we have to be intentional not just to recruit people, but also to be able to retain them.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, there's just so many different viewpoints and perspectives from all walks that we really have to take into consideration. You know, like you said, even if we have the same condition, we haven't experienced things the same way. And there's varying degrees to every disability, every, you know, life experience, doesn't matter. You know, we could grow up with a different type of background. And you know, our parents had totally different jobs, if they were immigrants, if they were not, I think it's really I'm very hopeful that more and more committees and organizations will look at those criteria, rather than just sort of, like you said, ticking the one box, but not looking at all the pieces underneath because everyone's experience is so different. And their sort of their, I guess their experience with accessing equitable information or services or technologies. It really is so variable we- and the census and the data that even the government has laid out. It's behind like, with COVID, especially look at how much has

changed with people's illnesses, long haul COVID. You know, those, those statistics aren't the same as they were when they were done. The last one I found was 2017. So there's, there's lots to learn and lots to, to take into consideration for sure. Yeah. So, what is your advice to you know, equit- sorry, not like, I'll say EDI, but I should be using acronyms. So, Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, Accessibility activists to support more and accessibility because a lot of the times you know, the EDI or CV and- or IDS doesn't often include accessibility. Do you have any advice to other activists, so, people who are already involved in equity inclusion, but maybe don't talk about accessibility?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I think that you know, if you're somebody who's looking to create change around this social issue, look at how accessible your events, your information, your, your, the components of your campaigns are. So that if you want to include more people who can be supportive of what- the changes that you're trying to make, they need to be able to access. So they need to be able to attend your events need to be able to understand your materials and to be able to participate. So I think it's really important to just reflect on, you know, the, the many identities that your supporters and allies may, may have lived experiences of and reflect on, you know, and I think we can come from a place of empathy, like, when we know that we felt excluded on a certain basis, you know, just think about that. People with disabilities have felt excluded, you know, on that basis, and so we have some common experiences to draw from, and we know what that feels like. And so, I think that it's good to reflect on that when we're thinking about “Oh, okay, and we need to consider accessibility for this,” that it's just like, you know, just like, we would hope that, you know, when disability activists are looking to create change that, you know, we might want to also look at, like, well, what are the intersectional dimensions of this, you know, the location, the, the venue, the transportation available, you know, all of the dimensions of planning something, or designing content, you know, that we would treat other activists in the way that we would like to be treated, would be how I would look at it.

 

Jolene MacDonald

I know that I've met several people in the industry, in the field. And often, they don't realize that, you know, accessibility- and I talk about accessibility, obviously, because that's what we focus on primarily digital accessibility. But, you know, we talk about equity and inclusion, but we don't talk about the disability part very often. And so we've been helping a few over the last couple of years, you know, firms and independent contractors integrate that in. So I'm hoping that that's a bigger topic of discussion, because it even happens in a disability tech, they don't often think about, they're trying to create a product for people with disabilities. And obviously, those products will turn into something hopefully, that everyone will use, but they often don't think about even the digital accessibility side, not because they're trying to leave it out. But often, it's just not thought up. So we really are trying to push that as part of, you know, like, criteria

that people need to follow. So I'm wondering how we could bring that to light more often to people. You have any thoughts on that?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Yeah, I think it's just really important to talk about, you know, the things that make our life more accessible, like to normalize that, you know, people need different things. And I mean, that's something that I'm learning a ton about myself around even accessibility of ebooks, and how they're not necessarily- like, I had always seen them as adaptive technology. But, you know, there are limits there, too. And so, I think that we often just don't know what we don't know. And the more we can share about our experiences, and the tools that make things easier are the dimensions that makes something more accessible, the better because I think we're all kind of on a learning journey. And it's, it's an area that's, you know, advancing very quickly. As much as sometimes it feels awfully slow, when you don't, what you need, but there's always so much happening. So yeah, the more that we can talk about accessibility and products that make things more accessible, or services that are delivered in a way that's more accessible, and we normalize that, that- that thing that should happen and should be normal than I think it's going to make things a lot easier for a lot more people.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, I like what you said about we don't know what we don't know; we often discuss that, because I was in that same, same position. I was a graphic designer for a long time and had no idea about digital accessibility or, you know, color contrast and things like that. It just wasn't part of my teachings. So, I think it's, it's, you know, when people find out about it, not to feel guilt, is that try to, like you said, embrace it and understand it, and integrate it. There's no 100% perfect, that we're not perfect, nobody's perfect. It's about the learning journey. It's about taking the time to understand it and making it part of your checklist and part of your teachings and integrating it day by day.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Absolutely, it's something that you know, it's something that we build capacity towards, and it's, I mean, we all do I feel like we are all, we are all doing the best we can with what we have- have, and the more that we can share with each other, the better we'll be able to help each other.

 

Jolene MacDonald

I hopeful for the same thing. That's awesome. So one of our last questions, as indigenous cultures have a truly different insight about persons with disabilities, we'd love to hear from you in this regard. And this episode will be published as the fifth and the last episode of our second season on the last Friday of May 2023, which will be an advanced episode to celebrate and appreciate the month of June as the National Indigenous History Month. So, we're wondering your thoughts on that?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of different factors in play. I mean, in terms of Indigenous Health, there are what we call social determinants of health that impact somebody's level of wellness. And so, an indigenous persons experience [of] disability may vary based on those social determinants of health. And those are like the social conditions around, you know, resources and support within community. And so it's important to kind of understand that that indigenous experience of disability might look different, or maybe felt at a different level, because of inherent challenges that come from intergenerational impacts of colonization. Another aspect is just to consider, I mean, there's so much diversity within indigenous communities, in terms of their cultural beliefs, worldview, languages, that there isn't really like an indigenous perspective on disability, there's so many and and sometimes the assessment of something being an illness or a disability is, is a matter of perspective, if somebody is existing in a cultural environment where there isn't a barrier, right, like, if there isn't a sense of urgency, then an inability to multitask wouldn't be something that would be necessarily an issue. So we just have to reflect on the conditions that make how we are more challenging, or how, how, how we are, is often shaped by the environments, and how we experience things. So just being open to the perspective that something that we see from, from our own cultural background, as being a barrier or a limitation. And somebody else might not consider it. So even just whether somebody is disabled or not, as, you know, a matter of opinion, and just being mindful to not privilege your own worldview around, you know, who is disabled and who is not, and, and who has the right to speak to their own experiences. So I think that there's a lot of opportunity to learn from each other cross culturally. And I think that it's important to reflect on how all of these aspects of our lives contribute to our experiences with respect to health and wellness and the way we function in the world.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, is there resources readily available on more about the topics of what you've talked about, that we could share on our website?

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I know that there's an indigenous disability group, I can send you their social media channels. They provide a lot of information about supports and resources that are available to indigenous people with disabilities. And that might be something that's helpful.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, if you can think of anything, I'd love to be able to share that with this episode. And so our viewers and listeners can certainly take that and, you know, make it a point of educating themselves. I know that I've learned so much, and I have so much more to learn, I don't think we ever stopped learning. And I don't think we should ever stop learning, because it makes us all better at the end of the day and more, you know, acceptable, and there's just so much to learn. I think I get overwhelmed every day and

just in the short time that I've experienced disability, there's so much more to understand because none of us experience life, like the next person whatsoever. So thank you for sharing that information. And hopefully we'll have more resources to be able to share as well.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

For sure, I recently acquired some books on cul-cultural safety and humility and healthcare. And that can be really illuminating around indigenous people's experiences with, with wellness, you know, particularly around pain, you know, for indigenous people, where sometimes there's an assumption of substance use, you know, when you're going to a doctor to talk about pain, you know, that somebody might make an assumption around, you know, your desired access to health care, right, based on how you present, racially. And so, it's really important to keep that in mind and to be able to advocate for each other in those situations.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, I know, the journey that I went through just for my diagnosis. Being that, you know, just the fact that I was females, and oh, you know, it's midlife. Oh, it's, you're too stressed. Oh, it's that or oh it's in your head. And I don't know what your journey was like. But, you know, it's, it's been, I think it took about four or five years before I actually got someone to finally take me serious. And I think I was lucky that I had a louder voice for myself, that I'd pushed to advocate and many other people don't do that. And I hope that they can reach out to people like ourselves that have bigger voices, because it is a journey, and it's very difficult. And then you put in intersectionality, or, you know, different backgrounds into it, and it's even a harder fight. So it's important that we can stand up for ourselves. And sometimes you have to push the system a little bit, it's important to do that. But to be generalized, based on how you present is unfair. And unfortunately, that is a lot of the healthcare system that we see all the time

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

But I'm encouraged by the number of health authorities that are looking at developing programming around cultural safety and humility. That seems like it's an it's a conversation that's happening now. And I think that can only be a good thing. making things more accessible. So kudos to everyone doing that important work.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yep. There's lots of people out there doing really, really important work. I know that we are lucky now, to have a great group of physicians and supports in place. They listen, they've learned from us, and they've decided that we have a voice too. So we're very fortunate, but many people aren't that lucky. So, it can be a very difficult journey to getting there. I would love to know if there's anything else you'd like to add or chat about.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

I can't think of anything offhand. I just really appreciate you appreciate you bringing attention to this issue, I find it's, I mean, we don't know what we don't know. But so often we think about accessibility, in terms of like elevators and ramps, and we don't always understand the complexities. But I think for people who might be feeling a little bit nervous about approaching, making things more accessible, a lot of what goes into identifying how to make things better is pretty basic customer service around like, How can I help you? And what do you need, and having those conversations can help you solve somebody's problem. So if you have ever interacted with the customer, and ask them what they need, and how you can make their day better, you're, you're already off to a good start. So.

 

Jolene MacDonald

Yeah, I think it's always a difficult conversation. You know, people don't know how to approach it, if they, you know, they see someone with a disability that's, you know, a visible one for once. You know, obviously, for me, I've interacted with few different scenarios where I've used my accessible parking pass on a bad day, and I was accosted by two lovely, but elderly people who were very adamant that I didn't have a wheelchair, and so I shouldn't be in that spot. And, you know, it's a dual pass because my daughter having dwarfism, she can't walk far either. And so it's, you know, it was an older generation. So we need to have more conversations about invisible and how people approach and you know, think about things before we say other things. And I have to admit, as much as I was taught to respect my elders, I did educate them, and I was a little abrupt, but, you know, I think they're important conversations. And the more we chat about this openly and things like podcasts and websites and, you know, media that we can share, hopefully, we'll have a more equitable world where people don't see the differences based on ability. You know, that's my hope, especially for you know, my family, especially with my daughter being so small. She will be four feet- people also automatically think that she has a developmental disability because of that. So, the lack of education, you know, I had those biases before, too. But the more we can do to learn and just be open, like you said, just start by asking, instead of, you know, trying to shun your children from pointing, ask them to come up and say hello, you know, especially if it's something very visible. We've been lucky to, to not have a lot of negative interactions. But as my daughter gets older, there's certainly been a lot of things that we wish were not happening. But the more we- we just have to do more conversations like this, I guess, and, you know, more articles more about your writing things that we can share, and hopefully people will learn from that and, you know, see things differently. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Allison. I'm so glad you could make time out of your day to chat with us on our podcast. And we'll be sure to link all of your information on our website. Thanks so much.

 

Alison Tedford Seaweed

Thank you.

 

[Beginning of the interview]

 

Hello again everyone!

 

I am Jolene from Accessibrand, and I want to thank you for listening to the 10th episode of “Why Access Matters”.

You just heard a conversation that I had with Alison Tedford Seaweed.

Indigenous Cultures have different perspectives regarding persons with disabilities, and we would love to hear the voices, thoughts and feelings of the Indigenous community. In solidarity with the First Nations and Indigenous communities of Canada, this episode has been published in advance, to celebrate and appreciate Canada’s Indigenous peoples as we approach the month of June (Canada’s National Indigenous History Month).

Please take a moment to reflect and focus on these highlights, and ask yourself some questions:

Do you plan to learn more about reconciliation and what such a thing involves? Have you ever considered researching, learning, teaching, and community-building, or did this episode make you consider doing something? If you are thinking about it, June is Canada’s National Indigenous History Month and there are lots of programs and activities that would be perfect opportunities to learn more and listen to Indigenous voices! Fundamental to this is an acknowledgement of the Territory we (settlers) occupy and a commitment to active decolonization and relationship-building in our efforts, which will foster community openness and empower more Indigenous people and allies to advocate for a better and fairer society which will welcome all “Equity‑Deserving Groups”, including but not limited to persons with disabilities and Indigenous peoples.

Well, we’ve reached the end!

 

I am Jolene MacDonald from Accessibrand. Thanks for your patience and time in listening to me, my colleagues and our special guest, Alison Tedford Seaweed, in our 5th episode of the 2nd season and 10th episode overall of “Why Access Matters”.

The next episode will follow in the upcoming fall, but in this break, please:

Please consider checking out our website if you need any accessibility services and would like to utilize the valuable lived experience and expertise of persons with disabilities. You can visit our website at: www.accessibrand.com.

 

Why Access Matters: A podcast by Accessibrand (thoughts and talks about accessibility)